Curse

Longasc · Oct 13, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Bear with me, replacing the diamond with a lockpick in Frostmaw is MEH!

Diamonds still cost more, at least a bit. And Lockpicks have value, yes, but they are sooo boring... never a girl's best friends.

Actually not even my grandma gives me gifts or rewards me with things that are as boring as a lockpick...

Gargle Blaster · Oct 13, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

gold to the mesmer updates
tin to the chilblains nerf

yesitsrob · Oct 13, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

If you think Paragon is dead now you're a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing idiot and horrible at the game. Not like that's news though.

Avarre · Oct 13, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

My views:

Assassin : Mmmm ok.

Dervish : Wearying strike needed that, tones down Melandru a little which is good. However, the scale of the change is small.

Elementalist : Ward Melee Change was definitely needed and 15e cost fixes some of the main problems with it, like fc mor wards. Not sure how the other changes will work, gonna have to see.

Mesmer : Power Drain got a solid buff, Drain enchant some changes, but not sure how useful it is. The cast time will still hurt it. MoR got a hit, which is amazing - still usable but not quite as ridiculous. Surge/Burn/Leak all are buffed, they didn't really need it but ok - going to be alot of Surge mesmers around since HEV took a slight hit as well.

Monk: SoD change makes it much easier to fake out, that's going to reduce the skill's power somewhat against good teams. SoR just hits runners, probably going to be more rit runners than before.

Necromancer : Erm k.

Ranger : NR/Tranq teams (few as they are) take a small hit, but more importantly, spiritway as a whole gets a kick. DIEEEE!

Paragon : GftE and WY (honorary para skill) take a nice hit, the paragon energy engine is hammered - maybe leadership can manage energy costs rather than giving near-infinite now? Don't know, not complaining at this though, paragon energy was ridiculous. AR change seems negligible, but the changes look interesting so far.

Warrior : Mm ok. Not sure what that will do overall, besides a slight toning down of axe wars.

Final comments :

Paragons in PvE don't care about this, you still have TNTF and SY! (also honorary para skill) and the ability to spam them and other things. It won't make a dent in the class overall, I expect, except for some of the more ridiculous energy-requiring builds (and really, they weren't as good anyway).

Ritualist passive spirit spamming is a mindset that didn't deserve to live. The more balanced ritualists that actually use skills that aren't glued down won't care about this, and that's a far more interesting thing to see in a game.

Overall, a lot of good changes in the general direction, but quite a few are too small to matter.

TheLordOfBlah · Oct 13, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Necromancers don't have any shortage of enchant removal

So it's not like they needed this changed.

Right, but this is possible to hit multiple foes, making it almost like mirror except with any enchantment.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 13, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

Right, but this is possible to hit multiple foes, making it almost like mirror except with any enchantment.

Yes, good point.

Mickey · Oct 13, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Congrats, another RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed to hell update.

60 AL paragons, E-management gone down the drain, so yays.

Gotta love Izzy.....

On the bright side, I am going to keep playing my paragon, and hope they fix this mess that they made out of GftE, although watch yourself is not bad, because it does not end for usually 10 seconds, and that 4 sec recharge is not bad for it.

Edit: I made it sound alot worse than it is. The way they nerfed AR is ridiculous......but other than that, they are just more nerfs to lay on the paragon, and surprisingly, the class is still UNBELIEVABLE.

Just took my paragon out for a little run.....WY and GftE are surprisingly not affected by this nerf that much....but AR is annoying the piss out of me. Cracked armor is unbelievably annoying, and I am definitely going to vouch to take that away. Either reduce the duration of AR, and take away the cracked armor, or make it like....idk...disable all skills for like 5 secs. It just needs to be changed. H+H drain the bejeesus of energy away when I'm spamming adrenal shouts. Izzy needs to get on the smart pony and take a long ride.

Damn you for making me go with Flail = P

CHunterX · Oct 13, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

A monk and a rt can out provide a paragon party wide armor buffs and IAS? I'm sorry but this post lacks is dripping with one sidedness. Please consider both the PvP AND PvE nature of the class before you complain about nerfs.

Also, TWO skills for the paragon where nerfed (and 1 warrior skill they used a lot). If your build was so shallow that it couldn't recover, don't complain here. Granted, the paragon doesn't have a lot of good skills to choose from, but you can still make a viable bar.

A Warrior can out provide a paragon party wide armor buffs (Armor bonus caps at +25 outside of one skill) while keeping up Flurry, Frenzy, Flail, etc etc, not to mention out-damage Paragons threefold.
These two skills are just proverbial straws that broke the camels back. Check any Paragon build posted anywhere and you'll see most, if not all, relied on GftE for energy management. If AR didn't reapply the condition, covering other, more dangerous conditions, I would be fine with the AR nerf, even if it is a strange way to balance something.
"Incoming!" is a joke unless you are running 4 Paragons. Defensive Anthem is a more expensive, more conditional Aegis, a non-elite. Focused Anger is bugged, or they just don't care that you can't reach 101%+ adrenaline, despite what the skill says. Anthem of Guidance, Crippling Anthem, Anthem of Fury, "It's just a flesh wound," "The Power Is Yours!" and Song of Purification are all worthless with an Elite status. This leaves Paragons with Song of Restoration, Angelic Bond, and now, Soldier's Fury. This is just the Elites, there are far more normal skills that are plain useless, like the entire Lyric line. And now their e-management skill GftE's is useless in that sense, and their only non-elite IAS covers conditions for the enemy. Try and tell me this isn't a dead class. It may have a few niche builds for certain areas, but every other class can out-do them in any area. They might as well rename the class to: "There's Nothing to Fear!" Shouter.

Mickey · Oct 13, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

A Warrior can out provide a paragon party wide armor buffs (Armor bonus caps at +25 outside of one skill) while keeping up Flurry, Frenzy, Flail, etc etc, no to mention out-damage Paragons threefold.
These two skills are just proverbial straws that broke the camels back. Check any Paragon build posted anywhere and you'll see most, if not all, relied on GftE for energy management. If AR didn't reapply the condition, covering other, more dangerous conditions, I would be fine with the AR nerf, even if it is a strange way to balance something.

Wow..........you have no idea what a Paragon is capable of, at all....

A warrior has more support than a paragon, you say?

A warrior may be able to out damage a paragon with other weapons, but the fact that we can reduce party damage by half, give bonus armor, and still pack a powerful punch leads me to believe that these WY and GftE nerfs don't even begin to cripple us, and AR is easily replaced by Flail, which is a handy skill to have on a paragon or ranger.

Just...wow.

And more damage, you say?

Again, just wow.

A spear chucks as fast as a sword, but more damage, not including skills.....

«Ripskin · Oct 13, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by thezed

So you can Vanquish EotN!! Awsome.

And here I was taking a short break from GW to play Fable. They've pulled me back in again.

Good idea *reinstalls fable*

Toutatis · Oct 13, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

My Mesmer is officially VERY happy about this update and wishes to express his profound gratitude to the people of ANet

CHunterX · Oct 13, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Wow..........you have no idea what a Paragon is capable of, at all....

A warrior has more support than a paragon, you say?

I suggest you read the first line again, particularly the sections I've bolded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

A Warrior can out provide a paragon party wide armor buffs (Armor bonus caps at +25 outside of one skill)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

A warrior may be able to out damage a paragon with other weapons, but the fact that we can reduce party damage by half, give bonus armor...

Reduce damage by half for 3 seconds, with an Elite. And bonus armor caps at +25, something "WY!" basically do easily, minus maybe 3 points of armor, depending on how high you take Tactics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

and still pack a powerful punch leads me to believe that these WY and GftE nerfs don't even begin to cripple us, and AR is easily replaced by Flail, which is a handy skill to have on a paragon or ranger.

Flail is a Warrior skill, not a Paragon skill. It may be handy on Paragons and Rangers, but its a Warriors skill first and formost. The fact that a different class has an IAS you can use doesn't make up for the fact that their own is crippled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Just...wow.

And more damage, you say?

Again, just wow.

A spear chucks as fast as a sword, but more damage, not including skills.....

Wow. Attack skills set the level of what damage output a class has, not the speed in which they can C+Space. Of course a Spear chucks as fast as a Sword, but once you start chaining Adrenaline attacks on a Warrior, Paragon's damage with its own attack skills is left in the dust.

Mickey · Oct 13, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

I suggest you read the first line again:

Reduce damage by half for 3 seconds, with an Elite. And bonus armor caps at +25, something "WY!" basically do easily, minus maybe 3 points of armor, depending on how high you take Tactics.

Flail is a Warrior skill, not a Paragon skill. It may be handy on Paragons and Rangers, but its a Warriors skill first and formost. The fact that a different class has an IAS you can use doesn't make up for the fact that they crippled their own.

Wow. Attack skills set the level of what damage output a class has, not the speed in which they can C+Space. Of course a Spear chucks as fast as a Sword, but once you start chaining Adrenaline attacks on a Warrior, Paragon's damage with its own attack skills is left in the dust.

So stand your ground doesn't count, even though it is 24 armor? I use WY anyways, but TNTF takes the cake on party wide buffs. It's not elite...ToF takes that up to around 50%, also non elite, with two skills, you have successfully copied Incoming! Which is utter crap because it lasts for 2-3 seconds, unless you expect heavy spike damage in short bursts. I agree that a warrior hits harder, but paragon support > warrior support.

CHunterX · Oct 13, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

So stand your ground doesn't count, even though it is 24 armor? I use WY anyways

No, "Stand Your Ground!" doesn't add to "WY!" If you use both, the most you are going to get is +25 Armor party-wide. I'll look for a link on the wikis to see if I can point you to the article that states that Armor bonuses got capped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

but TNTF takes the cake on party wide buffs. It's not elite...

Like I said, they might as well rename the entire class to "TNTF Shouter."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

ToF takes that up to around 50%, also non elite

One of the few remaining skills in a Paragon's arsenal. That is, if you bring a SF ele or two. Like I said, there are a few niche builds that will work some places (not all monsters burn). But the name "TNTF Shouter" still fits this class better than "Paragon." Pray it doesn't get nerfed again.

EDIT: I found a link to the wiki article (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Armor#Notes):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armor Notes

The sum of all armor buffs gained from skills and effects cannot exceed +25. However, if one or more effects add more than +25 armor by themselves (for example +40 from Physical Resistance), then the largest of these effects counts as the total buff, even if it is larger than +25.

Avarre · Oct 13, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

One of the few remaining skills in a Paragon's arsenal. That is, if you bring a SF ele or two. Like I said, there are a few niche builds that will work some places (not all monsters burn). But the name "TNTF Shouter" still fits this class better than "Paragon." Pray it doesn't get nerfed again.

Paragon can nearly maintain "Save Yourselves!" with something like Focused Anger. That is not niche. That is ridiculously powerful.

I Might Avenge U · Oct 13, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Wow, that's funny cause Chillblains was giving me a lot of trouble on my eariler droks runs lol...

Sweet HM Gwen.. ty Anet..

OlMurraniKasale · Oct 13, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Screw this. I'm tired to having to micromanage my paragons and not enjoying playing ME - you know, ANet, my character. Mickey mousing around with builds and tweaking till the sun goes down is fun for some folks, but not others. GW2 better have some separation of PvP skills so that those people like me who just want an average game experience in PvE can do it without worrying about it being nerfed all to shit.

Well, back to the Build Wiki to see what other options are available for Paragons . . . again.

Chthon · Oct 13, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Paragon : GftE and WY (honorary para skill) ...
Paragons in PvE don't care about this, you still have TNTF and SY! (also honorary para skill) and the ability to spam them and other things.

Morghan is damned pissed off about it. And I don't much care for having to seek out a human player with a high luxon/kurzick rank when I want a paragon.

You also forgot to mention that aggressive refrain was just nerfed out of usefulness. Sure, it was overpowered before. But now it's total crap. Can't Izzy at least try to hit the middle ground?

Quote:

Ritualist passive spirit spamming...

Was already on life support after rit lord took a hit and the cost shelter went way the hell up. Knocking another 50 hp off was NOT a good thing...

william1975 · Oct 13, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

nice to see the hard mode in in time for the weekedn event, i will be spendign time with my main character gettign its titles up quite a bit.

Happens to be a mesmer too so happy with those changes,

gg anet

Avarre · Oct 13, 2007, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Morghan is damned pissed off about it. And I don't much care for having to seek out a human player with a high luxon/kurzick rank when I want a paragon.

You don't need a rank. It takes 4 attacks to charge SY! Base level is 3s.

Quote:

You also forgot to mention that aggressive refrain was just nerfed out of usefulness. Sure, it was overpowered before. But now it's total crap. Can't Izzy at least try to hit the middle ground?

I didn't forget to mention it because the change to AR makes no real difference. -20 armor on a heavily armored, well positioned character? Oh noes.

Quote:

Was already on life support after rit lord took a hit and the cost shelter went way the hell up. Knocking another 50 hp off was NOT a good thing...

You're right. Removing passive spirit spamming would have been a good thing.